Totem Abilities

[Mike]

Almost every Totem gives you a dot in an ability.

I personally do not see this as you "learn" the ability
I see this more as the totem giving you a better chance not to fuck up

Say Jimbo has Firearms 4 and he gets clashing boom boom as a totem
I don't consider Jimbo to have the knowledge of Firearms 6.
I see it more of Clashing boom Boom giving him two extra oh shit chances.

Want to discuss people?

[Dimitri]

Tristan is Jimbo lol

[Taweret]

That makes Sense, Mike. Seeing as how almost all the time when you leave your Pack, you lose those abilities.

[Carter Heyward]

I echo Emmy, as any abilities granted by a Totem are temporary to being packed under that Totem (unless of course stated otherwise). It is the Totem imparting part of itself unto you, not you learning it.

[PEBE]

Then how are you able to learn the gift that totem imparts but not any of the abilities? You are technically having the totem use their power through you. You would have to persuade the totem to get their gift. Or is that what happens, we just downplay the chiminage?

Personally, I would argue the same for buying the abilities as the gifts (so long as you aren't going over 5. That's the max you yourself can comprehend and physically master; any higher requires some sort of Magic like the spiritual magic from the totem or Gifts like Computer God or Persuasion or Might of Thor that would give you traits/abilities over your max.)

If Bob were the Alpha of a Falcon pack, would he just be 'lucky' in leading his pack the right way from the +3 Leadership? Or would he actually know and understand how to lead? Similar arguements could be made for totems that would give things like Computers, Science, or the like (I just can't think of any off the top of my head)...

-- So speaks the Devil's Advocate -- 
 
 

[Stands Before Gaia]

This one's trisky, it is.  Like those nasty hobbitses.

My opinion, however, is while YOU don't learn the abilities, you do possess them.  A master craftsman who is totemed under Shantar, for example, will, guided by the Totem, craft things on an order than a mere mortal never could. 

When the pack link is broken, these knowledges fade because they were put into your mind by a  greater being who is no longer there.

The more you open yourself to your totem, the more they can help you learn in their area of expertise; however, those dots above 5 will never truly be yours.  They will remain elusive and ephemeral without the aid of those spirits.

If you follow Falcon, in my opinion, you should be able to buy your Leadership as high as you like (to 5), and while speaking with Falcon's clarity, yes, you can teach Leadership above what you, yourself, would already have.  If you and your totem are in agreement, why wouldn't you be able to pass on his wisdom?

[Mike]

I think the agrrement here is that yes if the totem "helps" you with the ability its a justification to buy that ability (up to 5).  However I still feel that the dots the totem give you can not be counted on when describing how good you are at something.

For instance when I played Jericho I got two intimidation from Granite.
I used this in order to buy up my intimidation ability with Jericho.
I always acted as if I had 5 in intimidation, never did I act as if I had 7.
That would mean that anyone with under 7 willpower would have been intimidated and we all know that just wasn't true.

[Stands Before Gaia]

Oh, I disagree, that's why some of us just considered him a big bully. 

I started off in table top, so that's where I draw some of my thoughts from:

Totems grant bonus dice in table top, granting you a greater opportunity for success.  Not more often, but to a greater degree.  Now, I know Larp mechanics are somewhat different, and retests mostly let you just do something more often.  However, the fundamental intent of the bonus is to let you do something to a higher degree when pushed by your totem.

[Mike]

The problem is in TT the knowledge is significantly lower based on the dots.

One dot of something in TT is a lesser knowledge then one dot in Larp.

Bottom Line is I dont think someone who has firearms 5 and gains two from totem should be considered the best shooter in the world.   Especially since they can pretty much Instantly gain two dots by completing a totem quest.  Its cracky and unbelievable.

I'm more inclined to believe that the totem looks after you in this certain skill and adds to the chance you don't fuck it up.

See I see a difference between I know this much and let me prove how much I know.

[Stands Before Gaia]

I still disagree...not that there's anything wrong with that.

Yes, I believe that gaining a totem can make you the world's best at *blah* skill.  If, of course, you were already good, the guidance of a spirit makes you better than anyone else.

If Clashing Boom Boom is helping you aim, you better believe it, your aim is Truer than any humans.  Totems, I believe, push Garou to do more than they otherwise could, they don't simply make sure you don't F' things up.  Where's the prestige for the Totem in that?  And yes, IMO, Totems want to make sure you're making them look good.

[NGervais]

Just chiming in here...

I've been LARPing forever (no wise cracks please) and the way it has run in every game I have been in is that the abilities gained from the totem are yours until you die or leave the pack...even if that makes you super shooter in your example. 

I think you are taking this from the perspective of tabletop and it doesn't compare.  I have recently discovered tabletop (in the last two years) so I am reltatively "untainted" and I agree with the other players because of what I have seen in other games and how it works.  It just gives you more chances at trying something in LARP.

[Owen Smith]

The totem rules are a mess, with all the "gives", "lends" and "teaches" implying different things. My personal take is that the characters can use their totem's extra traits, abilities and gifts as long as they are part of the pack. If the character ever leaves the pack, dies or the pack breaks, all these freebies melt away. And if they're not dead, the character should be able to recoup the totem points invested in the totem in a way that is meaningful to the story.

One aspect of the Totem rules that is often downplayed is that a Totem can usually only give it's strength to one pack member at a time. (p. 243 Laws of the Wild: Revised Edition) This isn't an issue when each character is involved in their own plot, but when a pack goes into battle together it becomes important to know "who's got the ball."  This limitation is often overcome by purchasing the Totem benefit "Totem is with each pack member and enables them to communicate mentally." (p. 249 LotW:RE) This Totem benefit is doubly useful since it also allows "pack-link".

[Seeks]

It's worse in TT - you have to buy 'another member of the pack can use the totem's bennies at once'.

I'll state this upfront - I was a TT LONG before I LARPED.. by about 8 years? (ick)... stop counting the years.  Bad Ben.

Moving on.

I agree with the item of a part of the Totem allows you to be greater at something - and some Totems are very specific.  Take the Unnamed Spirit (or whatever it's called) - the one that lets you get Primal Urge at 7 +.  It states, if you have higher than a 5, you get certain additional benifeits.  I think it would have to mention something akin to that to make you 'the world's greatest shooter'.

Now, mind you, Anyone following Clashing Boomboom are warriors.  The Totem turns you into a combat monkey.  But someone with the merit: Crackshot, or something, could equal your skill, and theirs is internal.  With a Totem, you are more than Superhuman, if you get my drift - Garou and Spirit, and thus, can supercede the typical laws assigned to the world.

It's like becoming an Elder Vampire for a little bit, without the angst of living that long, and sucking on blood. 

Just like how, if you follow a Totem that gives you + physical traits, your character CAN do things beyond the typical scope of even Garou endurance.

[Carter Heyward]

Also to complicate things more some Totems give all pack members x benefit(s), but only one pack member at any one time y benefit(s).