Online scenes and pack mind link

[Thoth]

I'm looking for clarification on pack mind link during online scenes.   Basically, if someone is using PML in an online scene and posts what they are saying via PML on the forum does this translate to readable facial expressions, etc as per the ruling on inner monologue.   PML seems like it should.  ?

Thanks


Copied from online scene rules in this forum section:

Inner Monologues

Inner Monologues, while fun and amazing for roleplaying potential, typically annoy the hell out of other players because you are taking away their ability to react.  This has been a common nuisance for board play for many years.
Due to this fact, the Staff of RAtC have determined that Inner Monologues give you away.  Emotions, Body Language and expressions all give you away.

Example One:
Brody says to Patrick "You're doing a great job!"  But then posts an inner monologue "A 5 year old could do better in tooth and claw."
Patrick knows Brody is being sarcastic.

Example Two:
Brody eyes Pebe from across the room and starts thinking about how he is a jerk.
Pebe notices Brody's look and knows that Brody is not holding him in the best of light.

[Erik Bridge]

While I agree that inner monologs can be seen in body language and in voice tone.  While you might get some feeling of what is being passed through PML you wouldn't get direct word for word ideal.  And that would also depend on your level of empathy. 

If Thoth said something to Alice ,via their link, disparaging Rory.  I might get the feeling of things unsaid, but I wouldn't know what per say.  And with enough self control or acting skill I might not even get that.

Just my take on the issue.

[Alexander Amarandus van Bokkelen]

When I first read that rule, it seemed like the spirit of it was "no saying snarky things other players have to read but can't respond to in-character."  At first I thought it was weird that stuff like that was always "readable," but the more I thought about it, the more it makes sense as a long-term policy.

Edit to add:

Plus, if you don't want people to be able to read that, you can use PMs and/or pack areas to make pack speech actually private.

[Arianna_Fireau]

I was also under the impression that Packlink and Inner Monolouge were two different things as one is a supernatural ability and one is just what your character is feeling. Especially when high levels of Subterfuge come into play. Otherwise I think you'd be into Empathy chop territory. Especially since your face actually shows no emotion when you use packlink, as it's been stated several times. That way, if someone is paying attention, it's obvious that you're using packlink, but not what you're saying. Packlink makes your face go vacant.

[Thoth]

Kat, at game we have little to no clue if one is using PML.  On the boards, it seems anything but OOC is picked up.

[Owen Smith]

At game, players ususally turn toward the person they PML and make appropriate facial expressions to go with their PML dialogue. I always play that Owen can see the expressions and body language, plus the conspicuous absence of words, and figure out at least that they're talking, and how they feel about it. Using that and some context from their external conversation, Owen can usually guess what they're talking about as well.

I always assume the same thing on the boards: rough idea that they're talking and how they feel and an educated guess what they're talking about.

[Ryan McKenna]

We're still human/wolf/spirit critters, body language is inherent in our communications, psychic or verbal.

[Thoth]

Part of the ruling for the forum was that it gets annoying having peoples thoughts that are private posted everywhere, showing us things we wouldn't ever know.  It was ruled as such because if you are posting it you want us to know therefore we do

[Lucky Wolf]

Could not agree more, seeing as the ST staff have posted rules about it.

[Sam Kinkade]

The rules were posted for Inner Thought Monologues.  Not Packmind link.  In fact, when using pack mind link, you loose all facial expression and body language, as someone pointed out.  At least, thats the way i've always seen it roleplayed.  People can tell you are using pack mind link, but thats it.  not what your saying, not what you feel, nothing.  Just that your talking to your pack

[Stalks the Truth]

OK again this is an outsider perspective, but wouldn't it be easier to just do PML's in PM's to stop all confusion? KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid is the old Navy adage and it usually works. I tend to think if you hang your wang out for everyone to see then your a sick flasher, well the same goes for  PML's if you put it out there you have to suck up the consequences of that. I mean you are forcing people to then ignore part of your posts, even thought they are forced to read the whole post to pick out the relavent portions, that is unfair for you to do to the twenty some other players reading the thread not in your pack... Just my nickles worth...
Dave
Deeded XP Whore

[Lucky Wolf]

What a brilliant idea.

::claps::

[Thoth]

Dave, that was part of the point of the rules set up.

[Stalks the Truth]

Nick- I am missing your point.
Dave

[Thoth]

Dave, the staff was trying to stop all the posting that people were supposed to ignore, like inner monologues.  So they basically said, if you post all the players in scene can pick up on what you are thinking, feeling, etc.   Better explanation of my point?

[Stalks the Truth]

Yep, I also was confused as I thought someone else in the thread shared the great name of Dave with me, so I also was wondering if you were adressing my post specifically or his. I think we agree on this point anyways...

[Justin Northwood]

"Pack Link," "Mind Link," or similar such methods of conversation between characters are not covered by the inner monologue rule.  It is assumed that the characters involved in a "mental connection" can stay their expressions and body language, in order not to reveal the content of their conversations.

True inner-monologues and thought processes are more of a "one way" communication from the subject to the audiance/everyone (asides, "breaking the fourth wall," voice-over, narration, etc).  They are said to always be known, because they are essentially OOC descriptions of IC thought.  Choose to know them, or not... Up to you, but the option to know them is always there.

Mental connections, on the other hand, are actual two (or more)-way conversations taking place IC.  They are not known to others because they are actual silent IC conversations taking place between one or more characters.  The option for other characters outside the conversation to know it's content, is not there.

[Arianna_Fireau]

Thank you, Marc. *tips hat*

[Thoth]

Can I suggest that people be encouraged use pack area's or pm's for pack mind link to avoid confusion?  As well as the clutter that was part of the intention of the Mike's ruling on "True inner-monologues and thought processes are more of a "one way" communication from the subject to the audiance/everyone (asides, "breaking the fourth wall," voice-over, narration, etc).  They are said to always be known, because they are essentially OOC descriptions of IC thought.  Choose to know them, or not... Up to you, but the option to know them is always there."

[Justin Northwood]

Actually, I typically use the IC thread itself to post pack-link conversations, at least when the information is something the character(s) don't care about others seeing in an OOC way.  There is really no harm in it, as long as the pack-link portions are clearly marked as such (i.e. between <PL>, [PL], <PML> type brackets, "Said over pack-link:...", etc.)

The main benefit of keeping things in-line with the thread, is that there's no mistaking when things are said.  When things move to email, IM, PM, private boards, etc., you have to resort to looking at time stamps, and must rely on clear communication from the other player setting-up exactly when a specific thing was pack-linked in relation to what others are doing/saying in the scene.

I do not, by any means, have any preference for how individual players want to do it- that is their prerogative.  For me, it's just easier to keep everything together in the thread.

For the record, any pack-link conversations that are NOT clearly marked, may be ruled by an ST to be "said out loud," so mark your posts as clearly as possible!

[Thoth]

cool, thanks