Brody/Tawaret part of our game?

[Carter Heyward]

Will (is) CapeCodRage (be) their Home Chronicle?

[Mike]

Yes have been since we went probationary OWbN

[Mike]

Tawaret is technically a shelved PC just being used for rpg.  she earns no renown or xp right now

[Carter Heyward]

But Brody does?

[Mike]

Yes Brody and Alice are mine and emily's active pc's in this game

[Carter Heyward]

Okay. This is my concern, where all these questions lead (and because I know it may become an issue for our OWbN vote).

Since stopping STing and playing Hiddenflame, my attitude to Storytellers having their own character in a game has changed completely; I don't believe it is good for the game, as players become lazy and reliant on the ST's PC. Now, I know this really doesn't matter to those people who know you well, Mike, but it will no doubt be a concern for any new players we attract, seeing as they might view our game simply as a vehicle for Brody given his heavy involvement in current storylines.

[Shining Glade]

Though my reasons for thinking so are different, I do agree with Andrew, I have seen to many problems created by STs having characters that they are too vested in IN the chronicle and even worse when they are PCs that they want to progress in a PC manner. I know I expressed this concern privately before, but since another has expressed it I wish to reitterate it.

[Mike]

Your concerns are valid.
Safeguards have been in play for the characters, and I have kept Brody out of most story lines.

Recently Brody and Tawaret have been used only to help with story lines due to absent players in the game.
I mostly only play Brody on the national level.

Everything I do, buy for Brody goes past Emily as well as what she does with Alice.
If the two of us are doing something with pack, etc.  Joe is going to handle it.
Every single game out there has ST's with PC's.  These safeguards are put into place.

Quite frankly I'd rather not ST, If I didn't have a character to play with as well.

I've always been on the other side of the fence then the comments you and Glenn posted.
Whether it be online gaming or in the Larp.
ST's should not be punished and lose their characters because they are ST's
its unfair to them and really almost punishes someone for stepping up and ST'ing.

The only reason why Brody and Tawaret are officially joining the sept is because of the current plot happening right now.

[Taweret]

And I try to keep Alice & Taweret kind of seperate from play, Alice only coming in for? What? Two scenes? And Taweret is rarely used for anything other then being the 'straight man' in Brody & Taweret's Comedy Hour.

I totally agree with the players, especially with other games that I've played in and having the players almost completely rely on the STs uber-powerful PC to get them out of scrapes.

[NGervais]

I have privately stated my opinions on the matter before to Mike, but I am in agreement with other players.  NPCs should be used to help if they players are desperate and need to do something that they are unable to do themselves.  Even then they shouldn't be abused.  The players are becoming Adren, they will be able to solve quite a few problems now on their own, it seems a bit unnecessary.  If players come in and don't take positions from players, then you aren't playing the character properly, if you take all the positions from the players, then you are not letting the players have fun...it doesn't work.  Either way you lose.

[Mike]

Brody and Alice are not Non-Player Characters
They are Player Characters


Its as simple as this.
If the players feel that they dont wish for the ST's to have characters in the game then we dont have characters in the game, easy as that.

I will post a poll

[Taweret]

Let me re-word what I was trying to say. Re-reading it made me sound like I thought I shouldn't have a character.

I understand where the players are coming from. Coming from other games where STs do nothing but go on power trips, I understand you.

But RAtC was founded on trust and communication. Mike and I brought our characters here because there is no other game we would rather bring them to, and, correct me I'm wrong, I thik we did ask for our players's feedback while we were originally transferring. We have faith in you guys to trust us not to go over the edge when it comes to our PCs.

Mike and I agreed that Brody & Taweret wouldn't join the Sept. Due to the current SL, and some of the players are familiar with the how and why its happening, they are.

[Tani]

As an ST that has been working to edge both my PC and Jase's to the sidelines now that we're finally getting a couple of PCs in the game approaching Adren I understand both sides of this. It is a very fine line to walk, one that has broken games and ST teams before. However in HF even when Jase & I manage to get Jared and Tani on the sidelines we're keeping them as our PCs. They won't get as much face time, but it is rather harsh to ask STs to give up their PCs when they aren't abusing them. If they're being abused that's another thing entirely, but no one has said that is an issue here. Players should have a strong voice in what they want in a game, that's important. But it's also important for the players to remember that the ST needs to have fun too or they will be ineffective as an ST. I've seen more games die from STs that weren't having fun anymore than ones that died because the ST had a PC.

[Stands Before Gaia]

Since money issues and children have prevented me from making the trek north, I'll be abstaining on the vote.  That being said, I'm an opinionated SOB, especially when it comes to this.  From my personal experience, I hated having my PC around when I was ST'ing, as people constantly would try to bring him into plot.  Either that, or I 'd be too busy ST'ing to do the character justice. 

Is there an easy answer?  Nope.  Life's just like that.

[Justin Northwood]

Outwardly, I have no problem with STs having characters, nor do I have a problem with our STs having their characters.  I do remember that the question of whether or not the players were ok with Brody and Taweret joining our game was asked and there were no public objections.  Safeguards would be put in place and there would be no issues... End of story.

Perhaps, if anything those safeguards could be refined or better communicated so none of the players would fear any funny business.  Maybe even partnering with an ST or STs from one or more other games that we are close to and frieldly with, to offer a vote, opinion, or governance in matters related to any controversial ST PC activity.  I'm sure there is a way to allow everyone, including the STs, have fun with their own characters.

[Shining Glade]

My simple opinion is that being an ST is a responcibility, you have to have fun doing that, and you are not a player anymore. If you think it is a punishment then maybe you dont want to be an ST. I know that sounds a little harsh, but when I ST i ST and when I play I play. I only rejoined this game because I am an ST in another game and wanted to play. There is nothing wrong with wanting to play too, but so it at a game where you are not also God. Maybe thats not everyones view, but it will be part of my priority of coming to game and I know it will for others as well. If that has any weight.

[Mike]

This is where we differ. 

I don't view myself as God over this game and I never will.  I view myself as the facilitator of the game that the players built.  I dont see myself as the end all.  Point in case I dont agree at all with the call for ST's not to have PC's in the game.  But its not my call its the players call. 

In no way is the ST's PC's considered to be always correct.  I encourage every PC to point out where Brody is wrong.  There is a difference between Brody thinking he is right and Mike thinking he is right.  When a character antagonizes my PC I sure will have my PC act accordingly to his nature and respond in kind.  Are some of the responses over the top and flat out wrong?  sure they are.  Will I have Brody admit he is wrong without it being totally proven he is wrong?  hell no.

I have done nothing but kept my character out of scenes left and right.  Its easier for me to keep Brody out versus past characters because there is always a price to his involvement.  The last two games Brody has been involved, definitly true, but it was more for a numbers things versus actual plot.  Most of the time the NPCs and our PCs go along but do hardly anything at all.