Org ban of Thomas Russel

[Conor (Former ST)]

Someone you probably haven't met and probably won't meet has been banned from One World by Night indefinitely.

At Midwinter, a woman was half-unshirted while consulting with a tattoo artist, and being a jackass he thought it would be a good idea to unhook her bra.  It wasn't, and he is now banned and likely to remain that way.

Don't be a jackass, kids.  We don't approve.

[Mikhail]

The Ban was approved, so I can't speak to that - whats done is done - even if it is stupid, and over-extreme.

However, she was not "consulting" with the tattoo artist, she was showing off to the tattoo artist.  Levi, (the tattoo artist) being such the "gentleman" that he is at 1-3am, while mostly blitzed was not about to tell her to "not" take off her shirt, especially considering she offered to.


This was not in a private area - it was in an main common area of the hotel, somewhere she should not have been revealing anything anyway.


The Bra she was wearing had shoulder support, when Thomas unsnapped it - nothing was shown to anyone, she wasn't already showing.


She at first didn't know who had done it, and wasn't even that angry about it, aside from how annoyed girls usually get when it happens.  This did not change once she found out who had done it.... Until "girl friends" goaded her into having a larger problem than she did.


I am not going to say, that despite her openly putting herself into a situation, that every other woman at the event for the last 11 years has known better that she isn't a victim.  What I will say, is that in order to be made a victim, there first has to be a crime - and loss of Support to the ta-tas, is not a crime... its annoying & Sexual harassment at worse (which wouldn't hold too strongly considering her behavior and location)


It was High School, drama, childish behavior at a OWbN event, while drinking, somewhere around the 1-3am time frame (Surprise, surprise).   Some things go without saying, and are to be expected - whether we like them or not.


Feel free to be a Jackass, Jackass isn't against the OWbN Bylaws (you may just loose friends) - Don't put yourself into a situation where stupid shit can happen - and hopefully, with luck... it wont.

[Conor (Former ST)]

There is no circumstance in which it is appropriate to remove another adult human being's clothing without their consent.

What someone is or is not showing off is irrelevant.  How public the venue is is irrelevant.

This is what's called "bad touch."  Don't do it, and don't make excuses for people who do.

[Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos]

thank you Conor.

[Taweret]

Well said!

[PEBE]

I really don't want to have to start locking threads like this, but I have to echo Conor.

As someone with "near free reign" with most of my female friends' ta-tas, I can say with much certainty that there are many, many circumstances when such attention it is just flat inappropriate. What it comes down to is this: If the woman-folk deem it inappropriate, it IS inappropriate, regardless of how you saw the situation. As owners of said ta-tas, the woman has final say as to how appropriate the situation is. If you are in any way uncertain, ASK her.. don't assume!

[Luisa]

I don't see how having underwire or not changes the fact that somebody undid the clasp to her underwear.

A bra is underwear. If someone shows you their underwear, they're giving you permission to look, not touch. It is not right to blame her for someone else thinking they had the right to unclasp her underwear. You don't touch someone's underwear without permission.  Touching someone's underwear without their permission definitely falls under "bad touch."

Many a woman the world over has felt uncomfortable about a situation, but laughed it off so nobody would know. One cannot assume anything about how she felt about the situation based on how she acted externally.

Also, I'm confused by this "It's not a crime, it's only sexual harassment" talk, as though sexual harassment is 'not that bad.' I'm new to OWbN, so if someone could enlighten me, I'd appreciate it: Is sexual harassment not a ban-able offense?

[Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos]

this conversation really really needs to stop.  now. 

[AndrewD]

Locking this topic as of now.

Marc or Joe can override my locking, but I will stand by it.

Jenn, any criminal offence is banable in OWbN. I don't care whether the Bylaws say anything about this or not.