Madness Season

[Conor (Former ST)]

I thought I'd collect some opinions based on yesterday's game.

[Mass Trauma NPC]

Can those of us who don't know the current ruling see it in print?

[Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos]

what are you trying to get opinions on?  i mean from where i sat, it was a nasty thing, that happened to the "big guns" and it let the litter chars whittle away at the bad guys, but the big chars woke up just in time to help

[Justin Northwood]

Madness Season (Ragabash Intermediate) [BoA]
There is a thin line between humor and madness and this gift exploits that. The Ragabash can temporarily push a target over that line, leaving the victim a gibbering wreck. While no permanent harm is done the target can be taught a valuable lesson. Spend one gnosis trait and engage the target in social challenge (retest with subterfuge). If successful the target is reduced to a helpless ball of madness, unable to act for a number of turns equal to the Ragabash's permanent gnosis score. Any spirit of Luna can teach this gift.
Source: Book of Auspices

I think the thinking was that it's a pretty nasty thing, since while under the effect of the madness (for however many rounds as determined by the user of the Gift), the target is unable to test to overcome the madness, nor receives defensive actions (at least that's how I remember it.. it was VERY late).  I usually tend to think defensive actions/tests are understood if not explicitly stated, so long as not specifically disallowed.  The write up does not seem to indicate any test for the target to overcome the madness each/every some number of rounds/turns.

[Conor (Former ST)]

FWIW, the original tabletop version is resisted Man + Sub v. Willpower, 1 net success makes them crazy for [user's Gnosis] turns, 3 renders them out for the entire scene, and 4+ net successes can cause even more "with ST discretion."

The term "gibbering and helpless" in the TT description further suggests that anything other than reflexive soak is out of the question while rendered so maddened.

AFAICT, this gift is the #1 reason to fear Adren-plus Ragabash in combat, since this gift is very nearly a one-shot kill.  It's even worse if you convert to MET and declare that this is social-versus-willpower and not social-versus-social, which RATC does not.

[Jerry Castillo]

Yeah, I'd like to thank Conor for being merciful in its application during the last battle. That Ragabash could definitely have rendered the entire party helpless and TPK'd us, and I am keenly aware that the only thing that kept us alive in that fight was Conor's feeling (which I agree with) that that wouldn't be particularly fun for anybody.

Still, it is an Intermediate Ragabash Gift, and should be effective. I think it would be more balanced if it contained a "breaks on damage" clause, like Staredown, since Staredown is a Basic Gift but requires the Garou to maintain it every round. With Madness Season, the Ragabash could use it to temporarily neutralize an enemy for his allies to fight around while still being able to fight themselves, or to stun a pursuer and effect a getaway, both of which seem more in line with the traditional Ragabash aptitudes, anyway.

Then again, I don't play a Ragabash, so nerfing this Gift is all upside for me from a purely selfish perspective.

[PEBE]

I too would like to see something that prevents the opportunity for a one-shot to happen. Whether it's "breaks when attacked" like Dazzle/Staredown, or "can still defend" as Falling Touch, I'm not picky about how it's done.

[Seven Mountains]

"Spend one gnosis trait and engage the target in social challenge"

Can this be ignored by a Willpower as it is a Social Challenge against the target?

Just so I can have a clear opinion.

[PEBE]

"Spend one gnosis trait and engage the target in social challenge"

Can this be ignored by a Willpower as it is a Social Challenge against the target?

Just so I can have a clear opinion.

The way it has been played (I don't know where in the boatloads of houserules) is that Gifts cannot be WP-ignored. Plain-Jane Social challenges, sure, but not Gifts.

[Conor (Former ST)]

http://rageacrossthecape.com/forums/index.php?action=pages;sa=11#36 :

Willpower, Uses of

[-1-] You CAN spend a Willpower to CANCEL a social challenge.

[-2-] You CANNOT spend a Willpower to CANCEL against the effects of a social gift.

[-3-] You CAN spend a Willpower for a RETEST against the effects of a social gift.

[Seven Mountains]

Ok, thanks.

[Justin Northwood]

The other rules monkey got to it before I could

[Conor (Former ST)]

* Conor (Storyteller) eats a banana.