Renown Question

[Lakota]

I can't remember how we get renown to be permanent, I vaugley remember it having to do with a rite. I ask because my house has decided to hide my Laws of the Wild from me (naughty house elves) and I was looking at my sheet an realized I have a some renown that needs recognizing.

[Torvald Magnusson]

My understanding is that the Rite of Accomplishment needs to be performed to grant full points of renown over temporary.  Additionally it needs to be someone of higher rank than you and not in your pack and performed at a moot to give time for the Ragabash to heckle the rite performer with valid ridicule about you to attempt to break the rite. Doing so is seen as being harsh but sometimes needed and results it the loss of all temporary renown to that point.

Thus far, for a lot of reasons which seem good, Mikal, Joe and Emmy have decided to forgoe this as we only play once every 4 weeks.

-Vance

[Justin Northwood]

Speaking from Hidden Flame experience, permanentizing temp. renown takes  a challenge - usually issued during a Moot but not always.  "I challenge you to recognize my glory/honor/wisdom or give me a challenge to prove it."  The challenged can accept or deny, and may issue a challenge or simply say "I recognize your glory/honor/wisdom."  The one challenged need not be higher rank than the challenger, they simply must have as much permanent glory/honor/wisdom as the challenger is seeking and they cannot be a pack mate.  You are correct though, that at RAtC, temp. renown is permanentized automatically as it builds up.

[Lakota]

Thanks! It was the challenge thing I remember now, that you spelled it out. While I liked the RPing aspect of the HF I think RAtC's way sounds good.

[Justin Northwood]

I must admit that I do like the RP of the challenge too, but it can quickly bury you if you don't keep up with it.  My current HF character has almost 2 full points of each to make permanent, and since only 1 point can be made permanent at a time I'm currently back-logged a total of 6 renown challenges.  I do like the RAtC system as it avoids the headaches, but I'm sure the staff wouldn't mind if any player wanted to actually RP a challenge every now and then.  Of course it's much easier to just go with the automatic system most of the time.  I feel I do need to state the disclaimer for those who don't know, that I am OWbN Council Member and a Narrator for Hidden Flame.

[Lakota]

Wow, I didn't know that congrats. and you just reminded me that I need to send a spirit off to Jase (Jared).

[Taweret]

Nobody seemed to remember that the challengee didn't have to put a challenge up there. I remember once or twice just hand waving and having Alice do the Rite without a challenge because A) I hate coming up with challenges and B) It does take up way too much game time.

Maybe it wasn't what we were suppose to do, but hey, I was a rebel.

[Mike]

I hate the way HF does it.
so we dont do it

Fair?

we have enough rpg and I feel our staff provides enough plot that this filler stuff usually used by poor staffs to get by isnt needed.
But then Again we dont have any ST's like Jason Place so why would we need it?

Harsh?  Yes

[Arthur A Dennison]

THREAD NECROMANCY!

So what is the current process for renown to Rank? I've heard you need two of the following: Rite of Accomplishment or Renown Challenge.

I've been told you can get one of each or two of one.

I was considering issuing a challenge for renown. Does this need to be done during moot?

[AndrewD]

No. You can challenge whenever and whoever you like.

And yes, you need at least two of some from of Renown recognition for a rank challenge (2 RoAccomplisment, 2 Challenges or one each). Remember you cannot get pack members to recognise Renown.

[Conor (Former ST)]

Rites of Accomplishment need to be done publically - you don't need to perform an act, but you do need to refrain from frenzying during the rite itself.  (In TT, if you the ritemaster botches the roll, the temporary you were trying to convert to permanent evaporates.  There's no good botch mechanic in MET, so, house rule, this possibility doesn't exist.  If people have strong feelings about this, we can chat about it.)  The ritemaster cannot be a packmate.

A challenge for renown requires you to find another Garou who has more than you do in the relevant renown category and issue a challenge to them.  If you don't involve the Master of the Challenge he/she may get snippy, but otherwise the public or private nature of the challenge depends on the challenger and the challenged - doing it in public is more aboveboard and more honorable, but doing it sneakily might be considered wiser in some circumstances, especially for Ragabash.  You can't challenge a packmate.

The rites/challenges must be in your two "main" renown categories.  If you're a Ragabash, they need to be in different ones, preferably whichever two you have highest.

[Conor (Former ST)]

Oh - other than "two before you challenge for rank," conversion from temporary to permanent is automatic in RAtC.

[Arthur A Dennison]

Also, the Garou performing the Rite of Accomplishment or issuing the challenge can be any Rank regardless of your own?

[Carter Heyward]

In general it's better that they are higher rank, but higher in Renown in the category you are challenging for is more important.

[Justin Northwood]

Shonn, the answer to your question can be found here:

Website >> House Rules "N" to "Z" >> Renown Explanation

(( PLEASE NOTE: A number of House Rules related to character development, including this one, have been removed from the House Rules pages and consolidated on the Chareacter Creation and Development page: Website >> Character Creation and Development >> Section 4: Renown Explanation ))


Lately, I've been auto-permanentizing every 10 temp. into 1 perm.  I will begin allowing temp. to accrue to 20, before auto-permanentizing 10, as per the House Rule.  This way, each character will always have the necessary 10 temp. to challenge for, once at least 10 temp. have been accrued.  This keeps you from having to tell the staff "don't make my next 10 temp. into perm., this is the one I'm going to challenge for."

Players must still let me know when a successful Renown challenge or Rite of Accomplishment takes place, so I may update the sheet and add a note that the first/second required Renown challenge per rank has been satisfied.  This is best accomplished through your regular XP/Downtime reports (with supporting information included, such as an explanation of what went down, or a link to the appropriate forums thread in which it took place.)

In general, it is accepted that challenging a Garou who is 2 or more ranks higher than you can be seen as dishonorable, though this sort of thing gets flubbed often due to the availability of viable challengees.  This sort of thing tends to apply more to Rank challenges, so there's definitely a little wiggle room there in so far as who you decide to challenge.  The key here is just that they have more Renown than you of the type you are challenging for.

[Arthur A Dennison]

There's the answers I was looking for. So I have to wait until I have ten temp...I can't challenge for renown that's all ready been auto-permanented...makes sense, I was just confused. Also, thanks for the notice on the Rank thing. There are mixed views on that rule so it's always a challenge(get it?) to do it right. Wow I got fast answers on this one.

[Conor (Former ST)]

An Adren Philodox could challenge a Fostern Ahroun for Glory, or a Fostern Theurge for Wisdom.  It would be slightly awkward, socially, but certainly allowed.

When in doubt...  if other characters let you get away with it, it works.  Renown is largely what people talk about, so if you get them talking about you in the right way, the ends kinda justify the means.  ...unless you get caught.  That tends to go real bad.  (Flat-out lying is often frowned upon as the spirits catch you out, but more-than-artistic exaggeration can work real good.)

Marc, if it's okay with you, I'm comfortable with the auto-permanentizing all the time and just assuming that most people are eligible for renown challenges/rites most of the time.  This is a pretty big fudge in an attempt to make the paperwork still viable in the TT->larp conversion, and since people still need the total renown to challenge for rank, I'm totally okay with challenging to have the point that autoconverted a month or three ago formally recognized now.

Fair warning, though - lose a challenge, lose that renown.  (This will only count as a temporary renown loss.  Falcon will not kill you as a freak side effect of our house rule.)

[Justin Northwood]

I am in favor of this, for simplicity sake, if everyone else is.

Marc, if it's okay with you, I'm comfortable with the auto-permanentizing all the time and just assuming that most people are eligible for renown challenges/rites most of the time.  This is a pretty big fudge in an attempt to make the paperwork still viable in the TT->larp conversion, and since people still need the total renown to challenge for rank, I'm totally okay with challenging to have the point that autoconverted a month or three ago formally recognized now.

Fair warning, though - lose a challenge, lose that renown.  (This will only count as a temporary renown loss.  Falcon will not kill you as a freak side effect of our house rule.)

[Arthur A Dennison]

Much agreed with above proposition.