Author Topic: So I was thinking about this whole retest thingy with Silver Fangs (Read 12020 times)

Jack Byzantine · « **on:** April 13, 2011, 06:34:38 PM »

Does the retest affect Gifts? I would assume this retest only affects standard Social Challenges not anything gnosis driven. I could be wrong.

PEBE · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2011, 06:52:32 PM »

The SF tribal advantage allows a retest on ANY Social challenge. Doesn't matter if it's part of a Gift or not.. Any = All.

Jack Byzantine · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2011, 07:13:07 PM »

Ah well. I knew what the book said, but I was curious if you guys had a not-so-over powered interpretation of it.

Mass Trauma NPC · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2011, 07:21:43 PM »

Silverfangs: First Tribe for a reason.

Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2011, 07:28:14 PM »

Silver fangs: must spend points on pure breed and have to take a derangement. Is an even trade I'd say

Jack Byzantine · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2011, 07:52:24 PM »

You say that as if its a bad thing Masha. Purebreed is awesome.

Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2011, 07:57:20 PM »

Sure. But being required to take it takes away choice. Hence why I think it is fair to have recompense

Alexander Amarandus van Bokkelen · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2011, 09:02:07 PM »

It pleases me that Silver Fangs are so regal that technology is even more likely to be jammed by them.

Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2011, 09:08:01 PM »

Quote from: Lord Alexander Withstands-Winters-Call on April 13, 2011, 09:02:07 PM

It pleases me that Silver Fangs are so regal that technology is even more likely to be jammed by them.

Damn straight!

Arianna_Fireau · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2011, 09:11:25 PM »

It is painfully overpowered, and no, we've never fixed it.

JamesLee · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2011, 09:50:36 PM »

To be fair, if it was only for social challenges against people it would be completely meaningless.

"I am a Silver Fang and awesome!"
"I spend a Will."
"Oh. ... I guess you can do that, sure."

Alexander Amarandus van Bokkelen · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2011, 09:56:18 PM »

It pleases me that Silver Fangs are so regal that they... can be ignored just as easily as everyone else.

Aw, crap.

JamesLee · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2011, 10:00:32 PM »

Quote from: Lord Alexander Withstands-Winters-Call on April 13, 2011, 09:56:18 PM

It pleases me that Silver Fangs are so regal that they... can be ignored just as easily as everyone else.

Aw, crap.

No one will ever accuse the Garou of listening too much, particularly to each other.

Benjamin · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2011, 10:26:04 PM »

Mostly I just feel bad for the poor Shadow Lords. They do have a Tribal Advantage, right?

Arthur A Dennison · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2011, 10:52:55 PM »

The Shadow Lord Tribal Advantage is pretty much this:

-Puts on sunglasses.-

Yeahhhh!

Benjamin · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2011, 11:02:59 PM »

Sooooo.... they get to wear their sunglasses at night?

Arthur A Dennison · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2011, 11:25:29 PM »

Well, yeah, so they can watch you weave then breathe your storylines.

Mass Trauma NPC · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2011, 11:45:09 PM »

The shadowlord tribal advantage is Fatal Flaw. Anyone trying to tell you anything else is lying.

Jack Byzantine · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2011, 04:36:18 AM »

If people actually played out their physical neg traits then it wouldn't be that bad ass of a gift.

PEBE · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2011, 05:42:18 AM »

Quote from: Fabrizio 'Lost & Found' Estrada on April 13, 2011, 11:45:09 PM

The shadowlord tribal advantage is Fatal Flaw. Anyone trying to tell you anything else is lying.

SL Tribal advantage:
Spend one Gnosis to get your Rank in Social Traits.

Now it might not seem like a lot, but if you can outbid a SF on traits, their retest won't mean as much...

Jerry Castillo · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2011, 07:50:47 AM »

Personally, I think the Children of Gaia and Get of Fenris Tribal Advantages stomp all over the Silver Fang advantage and take its lunch money, especially when stacked up against the related Tribal Weaknesses. I've never felt like any of them are really unbalanced, though. If any Tribal Advantage truly sucks, it's the Fianna Advantage, since it essentially just amounts to a bit of extra XP at character creation and then never matters again.

AndrewD · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2011, 09:04:57 AM »

Seizing the Edge, not Fatal Flaw.

Anyanka Kuznetsova · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2011, 09:05:49 AM »

Quote from: Mick LaSalle on April 13, 2011, 10:52:55 PM

The Shadow Lord Tribal Advantage is pretty much this:

-Puts on sunglasses.-

Yeahhhh!

that is NOT ALL we have Mr. LaSalle.. -puts on glasses- I can also do this -Growls like a kitty- :p

AndrewD · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2011, 09:57:13 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Castillo on April 14, 2011, 07:50:47 AM

Personally, I think the Children of Gaia and Get of Fenris Tribal Advantages stomp all over the Silver Fang advantage and take its lunch money, especially when stacked up against the related Tribal Weaknesses. I've never felt like any of them are really unbalanced, though. If any Tribal Advantage truly sucks, it's the Fianna Advantage, since it essentially just amounts to a bit of extra XP at character creation and then never matters again.

No, the Uktena one is the worst as written, since it says elsewhere anyone can do it, thus it gets channged to +1 Gnosis at creation.

Mass Trauma NPC · « **Reply #24 on:** April 14, 2011, 10:42:29 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Castillo on April 14, 2011, 07:50:47 AM

If any Tribal Advantage truly sucks, it's the Fianna Advantage, since it essentially just amounts to a bit of extra XP at character creation and then never matters again.

Personally I think the points you get from being Fianna should go over the cap.

Arianna_Fireau · « **Reply #25 on:** April 14, 2011, 07:49:19 PM »

Joe: Only if you've got more PB than them, as I recall correctly?

PEBE · « **Reply #26 on:** April 14, 2011, 08:14:01 PM »

@Kat> Correct.

Arthur A Dennison · « **Reply #27 on:** April 14, 2011, 08:25:13 PM »

Shadow Lord Tribe Advantage: If you have more pure breed than the target you may spend 1 Gnosis to add your rank to your social traits for a single challenge per session.

It is extremely limited and circumstancial. A retest on all social challenges always is way better. Just my .02.

Jack Byzantine · « **Reply #28 on:** April 14, 2011, 09:09:01 PM »

Its equal or more Purebreed than other people. The only way I can see it be used semi-well is if it you can apply it retroactively to a test(when comparing traits). It keeps the flavour of Shadowlords being able to socially outmaneuver others.

Arthur A Dennison · « **Reply #29 on:** April 14, 2011, 10:54:08 PM »

It actually says more than in the book, not equal to. I remember that being Malek's complaint when trying to social Song of Life because she has equal Pure Breed to him.

Alexander Amarandus van Bokkelen · « **Reply #30 on:** April 14, 2011, 11:51:41 PM »

Yep! Shadow Lords with no PB *don't have an advantage*, and their advantage never works against a PB 5 character.

On the other hand, they get some of the best gifts in the game, so it's not too bad.

Benjamin · « **Reply #31 on:** April 15, 2011, 12:06:04 AM »

So... does a Bone Gnawer count as having -1 PB for purposes of this?

Arthur A Dennison · « **Reply #32 on:** April 15, 2011, 01:30:28 AM »

Nowhere in the book does it particularly say that, but I would be inclined to rule in favor of that, merely because if you consider the Bone Gnawer tribal disadvantage, it essentially functions as PB -1.

Benjamin · « **Reply #33 on:** April 15, 2011, 01:36:16 AM »

My thinking exactly.

Sir Garret of the Fuzzies · « **Reply #34 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:13:54 PM »

Were I God of White wolf, I would remove the Purebreed thingy on the Shadowlords, because in their tribe book, it appears that they really don't give a damn about purebreed at all, so why would purebreed Garou have such a clear advantage.

Then for the Silver Fang, I'd keep it as is, and have my story tellers remember that these characters have technically a three point flaw on their sheet, and when they enter those stressful situations, they chop about their derangement. Given that they have a gift that essentially negates their derangement for scenes at a time, making them spend the Gnosis isn't such a big deal.

Then to the Fianna, I'd let two of those outlined abilities be allowed to go over the usual 5 cap that exists... and do something with that flaw... though we don't do the by the book flaw, because it would be crippling. Auto lose on ties from all roll overs, true fears, and all manner of other gifts.

Jack Byzantine · « **Reply #35 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:24:36 PM »

The term in the shadowlord advantage is equal or greater Traits...I am staring at it as I type this.

I still like to tone down the Silver Fangs auto retest to have it negate gift activations (i.e Blur of the Milky Eye, Jam Tehcnology) But that is because I like my sanity.

1st ed Silver Fang disadvantage I liked more because it was always with them. Not just under stressful situations. Also Quirks had a more deranged inbred feel to it than the standard derangements.

Arthur A Dennison · « **Reply #36 on:** April 19, 2011, 10:09:32 PM »

Certain Silver Fangs in the Org still refer to theirs as a Quirk and use it as such.

Rikki Waterman · « **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2011, 03:06:49 AM »

im just glad the bone gnawer tribal disadvantage isnt what it used to be in !st edition. it used to be for a bone gnawer to gain renown a garou of higher rank and not a bone gnawer had to petition on their behalf so that the lowly gnawer could gain renown, i also beleive that the supporting garou lost renown for his actions but its been a while sinse ive read the book.

Plagueslayer · « **Reply #38 on:** April 22, 2011, 10:22:42 AM »

As a thought HF has recently house ruled both the silver fang adv and the shadowlord adv to be arguably more reasonable on both ends. If revision is something the staff was considering perhaps looking at that for inspiration might be a start. I am not sure of the specifics of them though.

As for the CoG tribal advantage I love it LOVE IT!!!!

Arthur A Dennison · « **Reply #39 on:** April 22, 2011, 06:56:03 PM »

The only reason we didn't nerf the CoG advantage is that it creates too much conflict in a world where you travel with your sheet to a place with different rules.

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Author Topic: So I was thinking about this whole retest thingy with Silver Fangs (Read 12020 times)

Arianna_Fireau

Arianna_Fireau