Author Topic: Scandal, How it works?  (Read 1167 times)

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Offline Brian Green

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Scandal, How it works?
« on: October 23, 2011, 02:04:11 pm »
Hey everybody, I just read the section on Scandal in Laws of the Wild. I was curious after reading Vance's post as Seven Mountains. The book left me with one question, and a an observation.

Here is the text, from the book:

'Acting foolishly or making heinous mistakes draws the attention of the Ragabash,
who may bring up the matter during Renown awards. The Ragabash may then attempt
to negate the award by speaking scandalously about the recipient, pointing out his lessthan-
stellar acts (especially if they were performed to acquire the very Renown the
target is being awarded). The scandal must have an element of truth in it, and must
be agreed to by the Ragabash elder of the sept (so the accusing Ragabash must have
some proof). It is up to the Galliards to confirm the scandal and agree that the Renown
should be lost. Only one Renown award may be affected per scandal.'

So, I see that Scandal can only happen with the consent of the Eldest Ragabash, and the consent of the Galliards, but does not depend on the philodox, who have their own area of expertise.

What I am curious about is this line:

'The Ragabash may then attempt
to negate the award by speaking scandalously about the recipient, pointing out his lessthan-
stellar acts (especially if they were performed to acquire the very Renown the
target is being awarded)'

That says that Scandal is for reducing one's advancement in a particular renown category, possibly to zero, for the session in which you earned Scandal.

That's not the feeling I've had when listening to folks discussing Scandal, but there is the text.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 02:19:42 pm by Eoin McKinnon »

Offline Taweret

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 03:01:24 pm »
Which book & page number hunny?
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Offline Taweret

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 03:02:49 pm »
nm, just read the post again. No more posting during performances. Her de derr.
Taweret 'Ascends the Glass Tower'
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Member of 'Curators of the Quiet Road' under Peregrine Falcon

Offline Brian Green

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 04:51:13 pm »
No worries, Emmy! I hope your performance goes REALLY well!

Offline Seven Mountains

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 07:00:54 pm »
Believe me this screwed with my head as well given the first time I heard it and played it in OWbN or Rage in general. Needless to say the way it is done in OWbN has never been by the book. I will leave it to staff to explain it as they see it now so hopefully it will be clear an concise as compared to my ramblings.

Either way I am glad my posts get read:)

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Offline Brian Green

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 08:55:35 pm »
Of course, sirrah!

Offline Andrew (Admin and CM)

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 07:41:29 pm »
This has come up before.

We do it by the book. There was an end-of-game announcement last year that Scandal follows the book (it is only in the MET book, as a note, not the tabletop version).

Therefore...Ragabash calls Scandal, eldest Ragabash decides if it is actually Scandal, then tells the Galliards who do something about it.

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Offline Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 07:50:51 pm »
is it though by category or only during a renown challenge, or what?
Homid | Ahroun | Elder | Black fury

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Offline Brian Green

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2011, 09:45:03 pm »
I am glad it is by the book. Not to be overly particular, but per the text, that means:

Ragabash calls scandal, eldest ragabash passes/vetoes, then the galliards get to confirm or deny the scandal and the renown loss.

Offline Seven Mountains

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 07:51:24 am »
Andrew,

Was there any posting about the announcement online at all?

-Vance
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Arianna_Fireau

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 08:27:26 am »
You were there the day it was announced, Vance. It was all wrapped up in the game where Brody got scandaled for Lying about his interpretation of the Litany, and then Seven Mountains tried to Counter-Scandal and the Eldest Ragabash shot him down.

Offline Seven Mountains

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 09:19:47 am »
I didn't ask if I was there Kat, I asked if there was an announcement made on the boards at all. I use the rules and message boards to review the rules to keep things in line. Given the change in ST's I want to be sure old ruling are posted so I as a mostly board player can find them.

Thanks for implying I was being an ass though, made my morning.
Seven Mountains
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Offline Jerry Castillo

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 09:50:35 am »
Hey, folks, let's keep it civil.  We're pretending to be werewolves here, there's no need to presume malicious intent, and that goes for everyone.

To the best of my recollection, no summary of the Scandal rules set down was ever put up on the website.  I wanted to check The Buzz from that month, but all The Buzz have disappeared.  We should start doing that again, it's a handy way to make sure basic knowledge of important events gets to boards-only players and players who miss game.  We'd have to call it something else, though, since we're no longer under Honeybee.  The Foghorn, maybe?

Point being, I definitely agree that it would be great if the rules for Scandal could be summarized somewhere on the website (maybe under House Rules), even if it's just a note that we follow the MET rules-as-written.  Scandal is an important part of what Ragabash do.  I recognize that the Staff are sometimes reluctant about declaring a "right" way of doing anything in Garou society, because the different views of characters on what does or doesn't merit this-or-that a consequence are a big part of the genre.  However, I suspect that if every time a Ragabash wants to call Scandal it then becomes a giant mess of people arguing about what that means and how to do it and nothing ever happens, Ragabash are simply going to stop calling Scandal.  And that would be a shame.
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Arianna_Fireau

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2011, 08:57:54 pm »
We will post something on this shortly, but, in general, if we have no house rules stating otherwise, RAtC follows LotW.

Offline Arthur A Dennison

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2011, 11:33:08 pm »
I have a dilemma.

If this becomes true I will ask an ST to proxy Mick, using everything they've seen in the past as a basis for his action. Here's why.


I play a Silver Fang. Specifically, I play a Silver Fang who has gone out of his way to bring up the problem that is being scandaled. It is in my other character's best interest to see this scandal through.

If it is required for the Eldest Ragabash to veto/approve of scandals I do not think it is honorable as a player for me to be making that call.

Even stepping aside that the Beta might do it is wrong. I know 7M is the Beta and I know what his stance is. That is, unless he is no longer the Beta, then it might be the best option.

Just my input.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 11:33:54 pm by Mick LaSalle »
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Offline Kikea

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 09:19:38 am »
Well, as of this game, Mick has been absent-ish for two months.  (Yes, for OOC reasons, but that's not the point.)

What if 7M claims Alpha Ragabash for this absentee period, and Mick can challenge for it back when he returns?

This is the first Scandal I've seen in ages here, and I'd like it to not be cast aside for beaurocratic reasons.  I think it's already led to some amazing roleplay, and I'd love to see the Galliards and the Philodox all do their thing.

Offline Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2011, 09:24:48 am »
So, what i want to know is this.  As per what Dennis posted above, only one area of renown can be scandaled.  this scandal is being called on all three.  Is one going to get picked?

I really kinda wish that my question of WHEN this was being spread was answered (as it was posted in an old thread) so that i could you know, react in character rather then not...   but since it seems that there are many people who are having fun at my large amount of not-fun, i will just hang out and see what happens i guess.
Homid | Ahroun | Elder | Black fury

Pure Breed 2(black fury)

Offline Seven Mountains

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2011, 09:41:23 am »
I posted it to the only IG thread for Renown notice available. As I am a web mostly player the date posted is the date noted. I believe there is an expectation on the board that posting date of the original post is the IG posted date.

Additionally I am sorry that you are having a "large amount of not-fun". It's unfortunate that this core concept of Werewolf is bring about anyone distress. I hope once a posting on the final rules is here we can work out the proper process to include this deep theme concept into the World of Darkness setting in such a way as to accommodate the needs of all of the players.

Barring that and given that this simple process has apparently caused a bit of an issue within the structure of things, if the ST's wish for me to retcon some or all of this process before it goes any further please contact me as soon as is viable so I can adjust the RPs and such I have participated in with regards to this item.

On a partially sarcastic and heavily cynical note my next character will be a CoG Galliard who only tells Disney stories with a positive uplifting ending.
Seven Mountains
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Offline Nike 'Slays the Patriarchy' Strilakos

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Re: Scandal, How it works?
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2011, 09:47:39 am »
the timing is critically important for me because if i know the timing then whether Masha or Jerry goes to see 7M may change. 

there has been a WHOLE LOT of timey wimey stuff going on and at this point i have no idea what is happening when and it is really important.  like i need to know if my character is conscious during your post.  if she is still pregnant or not during your post.  if she is alive or not during your post.  you know, little things.

i likewise would like a ruling on all 2 categories vs. 1.  and on who eldest Ragabash is.  And on whether or not the Philodox have anything to do with it at all.  And on whether or not this actually only comes up during Renwon awards or not.  And whether the Galliards get to basically not do anything about it (as is kinda implied in what Dennis copied from the book).  And whether it just reduces the renown to 0 for the session in which the scandal is earned (for the one category) and if that is the case, what session exactly is the 'on the boards' scandal counted towards?

Homid | Ahroun | Elder | Black fury

Pure Breed 2(black fury)