New Ability Learning Times

[Justin Northwood]

In order to curb the rapid accumulation of Ability levels allowed by the previous system, a new system of Ability Learning Times is being instituted, effective immediately.  The new learning times will apply to all XP spending submitted following the 5/23 RAtC game.

A major concern among the staff, has been the rapid movement from x1 in a given Ability to x5 in that Ability.  While it is true that the new learning time restrictions will cause it to take longer for lower-level/newer characters to reach the same levels as their higher-level/older counterparts, an examination of character sheets overall shows this to be minimal.  In many cases, the higher-level/older characters have been in-play long enough to make their current levels justifiable according to the new learning times.

Ability learning times will be as follows, making the total time to learn an Ability to level 5 a two year and five month endeavor:
        x1 - One Month (Essentially On-Demand)
        x2 - Four Months
        x3 - Six Months
        x4 - Eight Months
        x5 - Ten Months

Please note, these learning times are somewhat less-restrictive than the Specialized Fighting Style Ability (SFS) learning times already in effect...

Learning times for all Specialized Fighting Styles will be as follows, making the total time to learn a SFS to level 5 a two year and ten month endeavor:
        x1 - Two Months
        x2 - Five Months
        x3 - Seven Months
        x4 - Nine Months
        x5 - Eleven Months

For more complete information on XP Spending and Learning Times in general, please reference the XP Spending and Learning Times thread.  For more complete information on Specialized Fighting Styles, please reference the Specialized Fighting Styles (SFS's) thread.

While applicable Ability advancement times will be managed on the back-end by the staff, please remember that submitting XP expenditures that violate the established XP Spending and Learning Times may be considered cheating, according to the RAtC By-Laws and the OWbN By-Laws, and is a punishable offense in any such circumstance.

Thank you all for your understanding and cooperation.

~ Marc

[Justin Northwood]

Just to make it clear to everyone why this new rule is important...

Rapid progression of Abilities can be genre-breaking.  Higher-level Abilities are intended to represent the vast knowledge, developed over years, of the rare few.  The x5's of the world are the masters and innovators.  No one should be able to become a master or an innovator of anything in just five months.

From Laws of the Wild, pg. 78, on Abilities:

"A character with multiple levels in a given Ability is certainly more experienced and proficient than an individual with just one Trait. Most characters will fall into one to three levels of Ability; greater amounts are very rare, limited to elders and ancestors."

[Joshua Dreller]

I'm sorry, but I'm a tad confused.  Does that mean it's 2.5 years in or out of character?

For instance, would it really take me as a new player 2.5 years to get a single ability to 5?  And would I be able to train multiple abilities at the same time if I have the XP to spend?  I can't imagine only being able to train a single ability to 5 at a time...it would take decades to get more than a few level fives on a sheet...which I understand is the point in genre, but it's a daunting idea OOC.

[Jerry Castillo]

An actual Staff member can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe you can train as many abilities as you want simultaneously.  Well...as many as your character could reasonably be training, anyway.  Don't think of them so much as "Learning Times" but rather "Waiting Times Until You Can Buy Your Next Dot."  As long as you have a teacher, you can buy your next dot in an Ability after the "Waiting Time" since you bought your last dot elapsed.

But yes, it will take you a long time to get to Level 5 in an ability, though you might well reach Level 5 in several abilities around the same time if you pursue them diligently.  Just keep in mind the "only 5 dots of Abilities per downtime" rule, which means that if you buy the 5th dot of an Ability, that's all the XP you can spend on Abilities that month.

[Alexander Amarandus van Bokkelen]

Mr. Kamm is correct.

[Seven Mountains]

Actually given the current rules it is not correct due to this note

Monthly Ability Cap:   You may purchase up to a combined 5 "new rating" levels in Abilities during downtime (4 weeks).  What we mean by this:  Add the new ratings of each Ability purchased, and that total may not exceed 5.  This does not necessarily translate to 5 individual dots of Abilities.

This means you would only get 1 level 5 ability in a month, you can not as Mr Kamm says "train as many as you want simultaneously"

This is assuming there has been no change to the rules which have not yet been posted.

[Alexander Amarandus van Bokkelen]

He mentioned that rule.

"Train as many as you want" means that, in theory, if you had a stack of abilities at 4, you could increase one to 5 per month.  The "learning time" clock runs on all abilities in parallel, and while pushing one to 5 means that's it for abilities for the month, it doesn't require you to refrain from buying any other abilities for several months, etc.

[Taweret]

I like swords.

[Seven Mountains]

Well then I must have missed that plain english.

Swords are nice, I like bunnies.

[Joshua Dreller]

umm...I may be reading this too specifically, but I'm still confused about exact times.

Here's Why:

It was said that the time listed is the time that you must wait till purchasing the next dot in an ability, correct?

Don't think of them so much as "Learning Times" but rather "Waiting Times Until You Can Buy Your Next Dot."  As long as you have a teacher, you can buy your next dot in an Ability after the "Waiting Time" since you bought your last dot elapsed.

This would logically progress into the fact that I would have to wait 1 month after purchasing Firearms 1 to purchase Firearms 2.

If this is the case, then the actual wait time to get from 1 to 5 is actually 1 year and 7 months.

1 (1 month) -> 2 (4 months) -> 3 (6 months) -> 4 (8 months) -> 5....

That's the end of the progression.  Assuming what you have said is correct, it would take 2 years and 5 months to get to a 6th dot instead of the 5th, because the 11 month wait time wouldn't happen until after purchasing dot number 5.

If this progression is, in fact, incorrect...and it is, instead, a progression of:

(1 month) 1 -> (4 months) 2 -> (6 months) 3 -> (8 months) 4 -> (11 months) 5

please let me know, because this would insinuate that you had been taking a month to learn the base ability instead of learning it instantly like the first example.  Here the wait time comes before the purchase, not after.

Which is the way the system is supposed to work?

I don't want to seem like a nit-picker or a power-gamer or anything, I am just seeking clarification in something that might affect how I roleplay my character learning things.

[Arianna_Fireau]

Taking a month to learn the first level of an ability is assumed that you have spent the past month working on it. For example, if you want to learn Firearms 1 for next game, you are able to do so, since yous pend this next coming month working on it.

[Joshua Dreller]

Ok, so the second progression I listed is the correct one?  Good to know.  Thank you very much

[Justin Northwood]

To put it differently- The month in which you actually buy the new level of an Ability, is considered the last month of "learning" it by the time requirements.

Example:

If I go into the September game with Firearms 1 on my sheet for the first time, it means I spent the August-September downtime (one month) learning it.  Now I have to wait four months until I can up to Firearms x2.  In this case, the "fourth month" is the December-January downtime, so I'll be able to purchase it then, and have it on my sheet for the January game.

[Joshua Dreller]

Excellent, I think I actually understand it now.

Thank you guys very much.